Between the Dance Floor and the Balcony | Iain Martin
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Leading across Australia, the UK, and New Zealand.
What does it mean to lead a university when trust in public institutions is eroding and the rules keep changing?
In this episode of Messy, I speak with Iain Martin, President and Vice-Chancellor of Deakin University, about navigating leadership in the thick of complexity. From global rankings and political scrutiny to AI, massification, and polarisation, the conversation surfaces the often unseen pressures shaping modern universities.
The “dance floor and balcony” metaphor comes from the adaptive leadership work of Ron Heifetz and Marty Linsky. It captures the leadership challenge of staying grounded in day-to-day realities while also stepping back to see system-level patterns.
Iain reflects on his leadership journey across three Commonwealth systems. He shares how curiosity, narrative, and sensemaking (rather than rigid planning) have guided his approach. Central to the discussion is the idea of social license: who grants it, how easily it can be lost, and why rebuilding it requires leaders to think beyond their own institutions.
Without offering simple solutions, this episode sits with the mess, exploring how leaders balance the dance floor and the balcony, strategy and stewardship, optimism and realism. It underscores why universities still matter as places for difficult conversations in a fractured world.
Key highlights
• Why universities cannot “go it alone” on social license
• The leadership cost of ignoring community expectations
• Universities as complex adaptive systems that require “productive chaos”
• Transparency as a practical trust-building strategy
• The future of assessment and learning in an AI-enabled world
• Why narrative and storytelling are essential leadership tools
I hope you enjoy this conversation. If you do, please write a review and share it with a friend.
Living and leading in the mess is easier with others.
What does it mean to lead a university when trust in public institutions is eroding and the rules keep changing?
In this episode of Messy, I speak with Iain Martin, President and Vice-Chancellor of Deakin University, about navigating leadership in the thick of complexity. From global rankings and political scrutiny to AI, massification, and polarisation, the conversation surfaces the often unseen pressures shaping modern universities.
The “dance floor and balcony” metaphor comes from the adaptive leadership work of Ron Heifetz and Marty Linsky. It captures the leadership challenge of staying grounded in day-to-day realities while also stepping back to see system-level patterns.
Iain reflects on his leadership journey across three Commonwealth systems. He shares how curiosity, narrative, and sensemaking (rather than rigid planning) have guided his approach. Central to the discussion is the idea of social license: who grants it, how easily it can be lost, and why rebuilding it requires leaders to think beyond their own institutions.
Without offering simple solutions, this episode sits with the mess, exploring how leaders balance the dance floor and the balcony, strategy and stewardship, optimism and realism. It underscores why universities still matter as places for difficult conversations in a fractured world.
Key highlights
• Why universities cannot “go it alone” on social license
• The leadership cost of ignoring community expectations
• Universities as complex adaptive systems that require “productive chaos”
• Transparency as a practical trust-building strategy
• The future of assessment and learning in an AI-enabled world
• Why narrative and storytelling are essential leadership tools
I hope you enjoy this conversation. If you do, please write a review and share it with a friend.
Living and leading in the mess is easier with others.
Chapters
- 00:00 Introduction and career journey from medicine to university leadership
- 06:27 The concept and fragility of university social license
- 08:59 Strategies for rebuilding social license and community trust
- 12:57 Balancing accountability with academic freedom
- 20:34 Protecting foundation while reimagining delivery
- 26:48 AI's impact on higher education and assesment
- 32:26 International campuses and local community engagement
- 35:33 Leadership sensemaking and stakeholder management
- 42:14 Future optimism and concerns for universities
- 48:42 Leadership lessons across countries and institutions
