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00:10
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Welcome to the Standard Bank CIB Why She Leads podcast. |
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00:16
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My name is Judy Llamini and I will be your host. |
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00:21
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In this series, Standard Bank CIB shines the spotlight on powerhouse dealmakers. |
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00:31
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These are women who can stand their own anywhere in the world, but they choose to be with Standard Bank CIB. |
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00:39
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They are inspired to inspire. |
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00:42
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And today, I have the privilege and honor to have a conversation with Ashia Jobodwana. |
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00:52
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She is the Executive Head of Transactional Banking for Public Sector. |
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00:59
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that's a big client welcome ashia thank you so much dr judy lovely to be here actually i'm looking forward to our conversation same here it's an honor to have you and it's not a hot seat trust me it's just a chat you know i i looked at your your profile and i wondered why you decided to go straight into the industry of your choice and not save articles and do all those auditing things. |
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01:33
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Why? |
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01:34
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Wow. |
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01:35
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I guess I'm going to have to start with my story of my high school to get to that for you to understand. |
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01:41
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So I didn't have the privilege of going to a multiracial school, unfortunately. |
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01:46
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So I started in a township in a small town called Mbegwini in Pal, where I went to school at Desmond Piloto High School. |
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01:55
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While I was in school, I mean, a lot of the things I always say, I always joke about this, even in accounting was taught in Xhosa. |
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02:02
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You know, everything was taught in their home language. |
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02:05
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But I was determined to excel because I wanted to get out of the township. |
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02:08
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It was my ticket out of the township to go to school. |
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02:12
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Fortunately for me, Ernestine Young came to the school to look for disadvantaged background children that they can sponsor going to university. |
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02:23
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And I was lucky enough to be one of the students who was chosen that year to be sponsored by Ernestine Young to study at the University of Cape Town doing my accounting which is what I was good at at the time so I did a Bicom accounting in there. |
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02:37
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While I was I was studying I had opportunity to also work so I didn't have vacations. |
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02:43
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Every holiday I had to come up to Joburg and work at the Ernestine Young offices serving articles and of course the the CAs that were the working for the company so I was an intern in it for the lack of better word and with that experience I think I quickly learned that my personality and auditing were not gelling. |
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03:05
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I did not enjoy having to walk into these companies and feel like a school principal trying to see what have you done where did the money go and etc etc I wanted to be more on the opposite of what's happening here what are you guys doing so I realized I'm going to be in trouble if I stay in the industry which is auditing at the time. |
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03:22
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And yeah, I applied for the graduate program in my final year. |
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03:26
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I was accepted by Standard Bank and so they were willing to buy me out. |
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03:31
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And yeah, the rest is history. |
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03:33
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That's how I joined Standard Bank. |
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03:34
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I joined the graduate program and I left the auditing world behind. |
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03:39
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You talk about humble beginnings, but you had the guts to tell a sponsor that you're not feeling this direction. |
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03:51
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What is it? |
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03:52
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Is it assertiveness? |
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03:54
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Is it understanding exactly what you want and going for it? |
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03:57
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What is it? |
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03:59
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I think it's a little bit of both because even now I think in my work I do have quite a lot of assertiveness. |
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04:03
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And even in my own personal life, if I don't feel something is for me, it is not for me. |
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04:08
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And I will speak up and raise that. |
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04:10
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And also I got to be independent at a very young age, coming from a really previously disadvantaged family. |
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04:17
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I applied for my own. |
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04:18
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varsity, I applied for my own varsity. |
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04:21
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I didn't have people helping me to do that. |
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04:23
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Right? |
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04:23
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It really does make you more independent and really being clear about what is it that you want to do for yourself. |
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04:30
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And so yeah, I think over time, it's just been the fiber of my of me that I do speak up if I'm not happy with something. |
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04:37
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If this is not the direction that I want to go, I would definitely say it and say this is not this is not for me. |
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04:43
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It's a good quality to have. |
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04:46
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So you've been here forever, like? |
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04:49
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only work for a standard bank. |
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04:51
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I know, which is quite interesting because you know what you want. |
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04:55
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You stay when you're happy. |
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04:57
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So it means you know why you're here still. |
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05:01
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If you had to choose to go somewhere else in terms of sector, what sector would you go to and why? |
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05:12
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Sure. |
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05:15
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I've been with public sector for a long time. |
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05:17
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I started to say after moving from finance, this is a sector that I moved into as a transactional banker. |
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05:24
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So I always say I'm a civil servant at heart. |
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05:28
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Government is in me. |
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05:29
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I've done other things in the bank. |
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05:30
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I've moved on to card division but found myself back into public sector again as the relationship manager for the sector and now heading up the sector. |
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05:40
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But certainly, I mean I'll be lying if I say I don't think about what my next would be or what other sectors would I like to be exposed in. |
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05:47
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If you look at government it's very closely linked into infrastructure and that's why I'm taking a bit of a liking now and reading a lot about what's happening in the infrastructure and also it's very it goes hand in hand. |
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05:59
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When there's no investment by government in infrastructure, infrastructure goes no way, right? |
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06:04
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You do need the government. |
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06:05
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So that is the sector I think I'm thinking about and wanting to move more into and make an impact on. |
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06:11
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Yeah, it's just a nice collaboration. |
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06:13
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That's interesting. |
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06:14
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You've gone further, actually, and you started the Women Forum. |
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06:18
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Tell me about it. |
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06:19
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Yeah, so I was, I mean, it's not something I started, but I raised my hand to run it. |
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06:25
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So I'm... |
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06:26
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Throughout my career, when I started to bring in transactional banking, I actually joined what we used to call diversity and inclusion back then. |
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06:34
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We now call it DEIB. |
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06:37
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It's a very long acronym, but it's about diversity, inclusion, equity and belonging. |
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06:43
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So now we call it DEIB. |
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06:44
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And every business unit of the bank has that, each area. |
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06:48
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So I started joining it and in there, I needed to find this part of this forum that way I can make a difference. |
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06:56
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Again, I looked around, there were aspects, there was disability, there was, you know, race issues, there were different aspects of the forum, but I knew women empowerment is where I have a passion for and wanting to know again, you know, how can we empower the women in the business development, the women in the business. |
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07:14
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So even back then I raised my hand to say, can I run the stream of the forum, which I was allowed to do that. |
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07:20
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And we did great work, just maybe starting because I was still young. |
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07:24
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that time as well myself i wasn't a senior leader in the business but it was about exposing some of the senior women to us as the young women in the business to get their stories to hear how they came became to where they are what is it that we can learn from them so i've grown with that now i am heading up the the woman forum for our business unit where really we cover everything wellness issues that touch women again we still you can never expose enough women who've done great things in the business today incoming women in the business so that they can see there's a future in the business. |
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07:56
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We still cover a lot of that as well. |
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07:58
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We did a financial one not so long ago. |
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08:00
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I mean, it's known that as women, we know how to make money, but maybe we don't know how to spend it or invest it to grow it for us. |
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08:07
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So those are the kind of things we look at and we try and bring to the business. |
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08:10
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That's what I'm leading currently for my business. |
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08:13
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Before I move away from women, what will it take to have all the top five? |
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08:22
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banks in the country run by women and more presidents of countries being women in the continent. |
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08:32
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Let's dream, what would it take? |
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08:35
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There are certain things that we should be doing or we don't do enough of as women. |
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08:40
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One, raising our hands for the roles that we want. |
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08:43
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Be that firm to say I want mom Judy's job, right? |
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08:47
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What does it mean? |
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08:48
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What is it would it take for me to be in that role? |
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08:50
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to be developed to be in that role right we don't do a lot of that versus our male counterparts they're very bold about what is it that they want and how to negotiate to go about negotiating for it we need to be more like that as women as well i try to say i don't believe it but it's in there i can't deny it you know the queen bee syndrome we also still need to deal with that i'm seeing less and less of it i think women are getting it now but we did have a queen bee syndrome um for over time where i'm the first i'm the only one you know, why should I bring other women on board? |
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09:23
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There's ways we can make sure we mobilize, you know, other women or even our male counterparts to support us to grow. |
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09:30
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So I felt like it's a bit of an excuse, but, you know, you can't dismiss somebody's views around those things. |
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09:36
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So there are certain things that we can do. |
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09:38
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I think the third one, really, even the book that I enjoy a lot, which is Lean In, spoke about it, that we tend to make even plans for ourselves way before. |
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09:50
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Even things happen, right? |
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09:51
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An example of that was... |
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09:53
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As a woman, yes, you want to start a family and you get offered a very senior role. |
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09:58
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You start thinking, but if I take this role, I won't have time for my family. |
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10:01
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Then you literally decline the role. |
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10:03
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Those are the things the book talks about that, you know what, if the business unit area really wants you, they will understand when you have to take time off to go start a family and you come back and do what you need to do. |
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10:13
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And so we need to stop overthinking it and just go for those roles. |
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10:17
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That's amazing. |
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10:18
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Moving swiftly away from that topic that you're passionate about. |
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10:22
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In your view, what is a virtue that is most underrated, both in leadership and in relationships, personal relationships, business relationships? |
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10:40
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So maybe let me relate to, I was having a meeting with somebody today, personal meeting, where she was relating her story to me. |
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10:47
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And she kept on saying to me, the one reason why I came to speak to you is because... |
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10:53
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It's amazing how we don't understand that empathy and godly leadership is the reason some of us get attracted to certain leaders and want to go and come in and talk to you. |
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11:04
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And so one of my bosses in the bank had a lot of empathy and people thought he was soft because of that. |
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11:09
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Because again, you're supposed to be driving bottom line, tough and all of that, you know, why are you allowing somebody to come and tell you that they're going through a divorce and that's why they can't deliver. |
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11:20
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But he made it a point that, you know. |
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11:22
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the higher you go and you always used to say this to me by the way he's one of my mentors now the higher you go your people leadership is more important than your technical leadership because you've hired people below you that they can do the job right you need to be accessible for the other things i need to be able to come to you and say you know i'm going through something this is why maybe i cannot be able to deliver on this etc etc and you know you so that empathy and i think we still see it as a soft thing in business or it's a sign of i'm weak if people come and speak to me about their problems and accept and all of that it we underrated in terms of how we can buy you loyalty from your people you know how people can know that you know this is a leader that i can go and speak to about anything and everything and i was one of those people for that leader that i'm like you i need to deliver for this guy i can't disappoint him so if i i felt like that it would be great to know that the people that i lead will feel like that as well to say As much as I'm going through something and I know I can speak to her, but I know I also need to make this leader look good because they listen to me, etc., etc. |
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12:28
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So we underrate that. |
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12:30
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I couldn't agree with you more. |
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12:32
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It is so underrated. |
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12:34
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Even in personal relationships, you know, it's love, love, love, but just empathy, kindness, you know. |
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12:46
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You spoke out of mental. |
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12:50
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There is someone who has a note for you. |
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12:53
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You might know her, Zen Jamini. |
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12:56
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Oh, yes. |
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12:57
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Yeah. |
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12:57
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So we'll play that. |
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13:00
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Well, I've known Asha for over a decade. |
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13:03
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And wow, it actually feels like a lifetime. |
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13:07
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Asha is tenacious. |
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13:10
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She oozes confidence. |
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13:11
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She's resilient and very authentic. |
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13:16
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You know, what you see is what you get. |
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13:18
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She doesn't. |
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13:19
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flip-flop and change. |
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13:21
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And most importantly, I love, love the fact that Asha has integrity. |
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13:28
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She has such a strong moral compass and commitment. |
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13:32
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I guess this is something that is very big and shows her strong value system, delivering results, looking after a very big team. |
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13:42
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And we knew, you know, like every other weekend, we knew that um they're hosting clients you know that um they've got um some initiatives that they are pushing and she was in the forefront as a true leader i know she's got a strong personality and she will ask the questions we would have loads and loads of debates and she'd ask why and i would give her all the answers she wants facts um she wants um empirical evidence you can't just do a pie in the sky you know there's no pie in the sky with asha because she's the person that speaks with conviction as she sits in these committees and she sits in these forums and she learns. |
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14:18
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As you show her and then you explain to her, she sees like the best practices, but she learns from that and then she comes back and then she will ask. |
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14:27
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She's eager to have the best education. |
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14:30
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She's did her masters because she's always eager to grow. |
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14:33
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She'll do various interventions as she believes that education, it empowers you and it doesn't make her. |
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14:42
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be this arrogant person that thinks that they know everything but instead um she would always be the modest asha that we know it's very strong on mentorship it should say to me zany we should invest in the growth and development of others that's always great she says that about the team she says that about colleagues um across the board so that is a big thing for her and women empowerment for her women empowerment stands out i've seen that and i don't know how many mentees that she's got But I know that she supports, she supports all the way. |
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15:16
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Also amazed at the empathy that Asha demonstrates. |
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15:21
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Asha is one of the very few people that I know. |
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15:24
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We'll stand at the traffic light, you know, she's on the traffic light, there's a guy sitting there with a cardboard written there, I've got a degree but I can't get a job. |
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15:33
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Asha is one of the people that will actually take a picture of that cardboard and circulate that to the various tribes WhatsApp groups to say that, help a folk who's looking for a job with a degree, guys let's lend a helping hand because that's who she is. |
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15:48
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She always lends a helping hand, understands the needs and feelings of her team. |
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15:53
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and making sure that people are okay, people are not worse off. |
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15:58
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She seeks feedback all the time, and we always say feedback is for champions, so that makes her a champion, I guess. |
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16:06
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It's been a great journey watching Asha grow. |
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16:10
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I know that she will continue soaring, and she will continue thriving from the streets of Powell to an executive in the corporate investment banking in South Africa. |
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16:22
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And going across the various regions that we've got, I can just say, Asha, I can't wait to continue celebrating you because you are definitely a force to be reckoned with and you are inspired to inspire, as we say. |
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16:43
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That's so special to hear from your mentor. |
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16:48
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I couldn't agree with you more. |
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16:49
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It makes you the leader that you are. |
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16:52
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I have to tease out something because of your experience. |
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16:56
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In this country, we have a lot of, the percentage is very high, of women households, women-led households, right? |
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17:07
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So you have young women or girls and boys that don't have a father figure or even just a male figure. |
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17:15
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You are raised by your grandmother and your mother. |
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17:18
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What can you say to that child? |
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17:22
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at PAL, Guguletu, or anywhere else in this country who actually are facing the same dynamic to say how will they achieve in life, what should they focus on because we do tend to focus on what we don't have rather than what we have. |
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17:40
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What should you say? |
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17:42
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Look I think I mean if I look at also my own background is there's a way out right If you really are focused and you can see the stories of the people who've also come from humble beginnings, but look at where they are now. |
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17:58
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Why can't that be you? |
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18:00
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Right. |
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18:01
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But don't lose hope. |
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18:03
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Somebody out there is going to notice you. |
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18:06
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Ernestine Young noticed me at school. |
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18:08
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Amongst, you know, I was in a previously disadvantaged school. |
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18:12
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They came looking for me and they found me. |
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18:15
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And I always say they came looking for me because I was the only student who was given that pass that year. |
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18:19
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and somebody will notice you and give you the chance but my thing is that when you get given that chance you need to run with it you need to run with it with your with your life and make something out of it i was so anti-social in university in my first year because i'm like i'm here on a bus i can't be out on the parks i can't mess up you know when my friends are like are we going out i'm like no i need to study because i knew why i'm there and i knew this is my only way out chance right so i grabbed it and i ran with that opportunity And so I think for me, those are the two things that, you know, keep doing what you're doing, keep on being focused, you know, keep on, you know, doing your best. |
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18:57
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Somebody is going to notice. |
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18:59
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And when you do get the chance, you gotta, you gotta grab it. |
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19:03
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That's amazing. |
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19:04
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What do you do for fun? |
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19:08
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Well, um, I always say I'm probably one of the most balanced people that I know, because I work hard during the week, but I say even start a bank knows. |
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19:15
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Friday, when I'm done, I do not touch my laptop unless I have to. |
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19:21
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If I have to think about it, so I do spend a lot of time with my husband. |
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19:25
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Of course, we have date nights every Friday. |
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19:27
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That's what I look forward to every Friday. |
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19:30
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That's me just unwinding, letting him into what my week looked like and, you know, how hectic it was, et cetera, et cetera. |
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19:38
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So I look forward to that. |
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19:39
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That's just my Fridays just for that. |
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19:42
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Saturdays I really, I do socialize a lot. |
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19:45
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Yes, I do have a lot of friends where we catch up and have lunch etc. |
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19:48
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But if I'm not doing that, I'm catching up on Korean series. |
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19:53
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That's one of my favorite things to watch. |
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19:55
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I watch quite a lot of those Korean series. |
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19:56
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They're quite amazing. |
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19:57
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The storylines are quite amazing and you end up feeling like you understand the language actually. |
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20:03
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Also very highly spiritual. |
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20:05
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I'm very clear even to my circles that My Sundays are for me and my God to not invite me to anything. |
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20:11
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I'm not going to come because that's just my time, my downtime to just catch up with my God, read up what I need to read up on, watch what I need to watch. |
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20:21
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I've recently taken up golf. |
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20:23
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I've been spending a lot of time in the golf course. |
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20:26
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Now, my Friday afternoons before date night, I'm constantly in the golf course practicing. |
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20:31
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Yeah, and it's actually helping a lot to also sometimes just... |
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20:34
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relieve the stress to go hit the balls and I'm enjoying it. |
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20:38
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That's amazing. |
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20:39
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Does your husband play? |
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20:40
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Very well. |
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20:41
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He's a big golfer as well. |
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20:43
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Was that the influence or the bank? |
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20:45
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No, actually the bank. |
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20:47
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Actually, it started with a bank. |
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20:50
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There was a call to say, we need a few women to start playing. |
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20:53
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We've got a lot of golf days in the bank and there's never enough women who participate. |
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20:58
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And also I got tired of declining clients' invites. |
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21:00
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where they invite you to a golf day. |
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21:01
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I'm like, but I don't play golf. |
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21:03
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I was like, actually, why not? |
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21:05
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Yeah. |
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21:05
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So it was more the banks, of course, than anything. |
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21:07
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My husband won't even play with me. |
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21:09
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He's very clear that until I get to a certain handicap, that's the only time we'll play together. |
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21:14
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He's quite snotty, right? |
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21:16
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So I'm not there yet. |
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21:17
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Yeah, yeah. |
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21:18
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Where are you from here? |
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21:20
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Well, I mean, I've got quite a lot of things I still like to achieve in the role that I'm in. |
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21:27
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I've been only in this role for two years now. |
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21:29
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Still very new for me. |
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21:32
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There's a lot to learn. |
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21:33
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And I mean, as I said, there's other sectors I'd like to be exposed to, you know, you don't want to be known as a government person forever as well. |
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21:41
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So there's definitely a lot of scope of still learning where I am in the business. |
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21:45
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But ultimately, I mean, I always say I love the sales space, I love the relationship management space. |
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21:51
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I'm definitely in the right place to grow into the space. |
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21:54
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I'm the head of public sector, there's a head of sales across. |
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21:57
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Why not his role? |
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21:59
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Why not in future be the next state of sales who looks after the entire mining industry, different other sectors, not just public sector. |
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22:06
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So there's quite a lot of growth that's there for me in the business. |
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22:10
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That's good. |
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22:11
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What's in your bucket list? |
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22:14
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Sure. |
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22:15
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Traveling to Greece at some point in time. |
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22:18
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Yeah, I was supposed to travel sometime this year. |
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22:20
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It's just we had quite a lot at work, so I couldn't travel. |
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22:23
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But I'd love to do that. |
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22:27
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You know. |
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22:28
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We're not getting any younger. |
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22:30
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We are talking about starting a family with my husband, so I'm looking forward to how that will turn out as well. |
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22:35
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Yeah. |
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22:36
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And yeah, just being a happy person altogether and being content, that's for me is more important for me right now. |
|
22:43
|
Yeah, I think the matriarchs did a good job because you focus on the right things. |
|
22:50
|
It really is about being happy. |
|
22:52
|
It's about caring for the next person. |
|
22:55
|
And you've done so well. |
|
22:57
|
And Umakulu must be looking down with pride. |
|
23:02
|
And congratulations on the journey thus far. |
|
23:05
|
I can't wait to see where it takes you. |
|
23:08
|
But it was such an honor to meet you and chat to you. |
|
23:12
|
Thank you. |
|
23:13
|
Much appreciated. |
|
23:15
|
Thank you so much. |
|
23:16
|
Thank you. |
|
23:16
|
It's lovely. |
